In another email to Wes, I suggested the same. I have cc'd vtkuser's mailing list as well ( to provide background on the topic, may be better to start a new thread in the vtkusers mailing list). <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Bill Lorensen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bill.lorensen@gmail.com" target="_blank">bill.lorensen@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I agree with Will. We should ask the community about the impact of a<br>
VTK without tcl.<br>
<div><div><br>
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Will Schroeder<br>
<<a href="mailto:will.schroeder@kitware.com" target="_blank">will.schroeder@kitware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> This may be a bigger issue than just the ARB, I'm wondering if we should ask<br>
> the question across the broader community, and/or create an explicit<br>
> transition plan.<br>
> W<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Wes Turner <<a href="mailto:wes.turner@kitware.com" target="_blank">wes.turner@kitware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Changing a few interfaces is manageable. Removing support for the entire<br>
>> GUI system is much more catastrophic. If this were a democracy I would<br>
>> stage a filibuster and force a super-majority. :-)<br>
>><br>
>> As it is, I will happily abide by any decision by the ARB, but I strongly<br>
>> urge that they make an explicit decision and announce it, rather than just<br>
>> do it by default or allow support to erode away.<br>
>><br>
>> - Wes<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:51 AM, David Cole <<a href="mailto:david.cole@kitware.com" target="_blank">david.cole@kitware.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm not saying that applications like this shouldn't upgrade. On the<br>
>>> contrary, I think they should, and I think they should do it soon, and give<br>
>>> us feedback on the new layout of modular VTK, and on the rest of the changes<br>
>>> (legacy code removal), ... other changes?<br>
>>><br>
>>> I am saying we're making a bunch of changes anyhow, and applications are<br>
>>> going to have to make lots of changes to adapt to them anyhow... and because<br>
>>> of this, now is the perfect opportunity to make breaking changes, so that<br>
>>> apps that need to adapt only need to do it once, and then we position VTK<br>
>>> for better things in the future. (Specifically, a C++ namespace and<br>
>>> potential for more modern wrapped languages.)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Tcl wrapping, even if removed from VTK itself, could be done in a<br>
>>> separate project, from the outside, after the fact. That's how ActiViz works<br>
>>> for C# wrapping: which is another thing that will have to adapt to this new<br>
>>> VTK if it wants to survive. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has spent<br>
>>> any effort making sure ActiViz is still going to work flawlessly with the<br>
>>> new VTK. That'll be something for somebody's to do list after the dust<br>
>>> settles here.<br>
>>><br>
>>> This is the one chance we'll have in the next decade to break backwards<br>
>>> compatibility: we should take it while we have it.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> David C.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 6:09 AM, Karthik Krishnan<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:karthik.krishnan@kitware.com" target="_blank">karthik.krishnan@kitware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> I agree with Wes. Again, not to be too vocal....<br>
>>><br>
>>> I don't vote for vtk3DWidget being renamed. Despite it being an old<br>
>>> generation widgets that we don't recommend folks derive from, but the fact<br>
>>> remains that there are a few widgets in VTK that derive from it. There are a<br>
>>> lot of widgets in Slicer (<20) and VolView (>10) that derive from it. These<br>
>>> are examples from just 2 applications.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I don't support Tcl wrapping being dropped. There are still a lot of apps<br>
>>> under active development out there relying on VTK being wrappable from Tcl<br>
>>> (BioImageSuite, VolView, SCIRun, MIPS to name a few). It hasn't been long<br>
>>> since Slicer made the switch either.<br>
>>><br>
>>> These are all large applications, with a large user base and important<br>
>>> customers of VTK. Don't you think a stand that: "If these applications want<br>
>>> to continue using VTK, they shouldn't upgrade" is a bit harsh.<br>
>>><br>
>>> thx<br>
>>> --<br>
>>> karthik<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:47 AM, David E DeMarle<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:dave.demarle@kitware.com" target="_blank">dave.demarle@kitware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> And I _will_ add text to the download page to make it clear what that<br>
>>>> binary is because you are entirely right that it shouldn't be the<br>
>>>> first thing newbies try.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> David E DeMarle<br>
>>>> Kitware, Inc.<br>
>>>> R&D Engineer<br>
>>>> 21 Corporate Drive<br>
>>>> Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662<br>
>>>> Phone: <a href="tel:518-881-4909" value="+15188814909" target="_blank">518-881-4909</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 4:12 PM, David E DeMarle<br>
>>>> <<a href="mailto:dave.demarle@kitware.com" target="_blank">dave.demarle@kitware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> > That is an old school 32bit windows tcl interpreter with the tcl<br>
>>>> > wrapped vtk libs preloaded. Use it by typing in vtk tcl scripts there,<br>
>>>> > or just pass tcl scripts as filenames to that executable to run them<br>
>>>> > without the shell. (Back when I was a young lad, and when Will and<br>
>>>> > Bill were still old men, that was the _easy_ way to learn VTK. Ah<br>
>>>> > those were the days, even if we did have to walk five miles in the<br>
>>>> > snow to get to grad school.)<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > My plan for this release is to keep it the same as before. I hope to<br>
>>>> > find the time to make and post the vtkpython equivalent of that<br>
>>>> > executable for mac, linux and windows, but I am not going to hold up<br>
>>>> > the release release for them.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > For 6.0 we at least want the python exes, will probably drop the tcl<br>
>>>> > exe, and will try to make a proper SDK so that you don't need to<br>
>>>> > compile vtk to make c++ apps that use it.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > David E DeMarle<br>
>>>> > Kitware, Inc.<br>
>>>> > R&D Engineer<br>
>>>> > 21 Corporate Drive<br>
>>>> > Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662<br>
>>>> > Phone: <a href="tel:518-881-4909" value="+15188814909" target="_blank">518-881-4909</a><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 3:45 PM, David Doria <<a href="mailto:daviddoria@gmail.com" target="_blank">daviddoria@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> > wrote:<br>
>>>> >> On a related note, every Windows user I have suggested VTK to has<br>
>>>> >> gone<br>
>>>> >> to this page:<br>
>>>> >> <a href="http://vtk.org/VTK/resources/software.html#latest2" target="_blank">http://vtk.org/VTK/resources/software.html#latest2</a><br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> and been extremely confused about what they get with the "Windows<br>
>>>> >> (Installer) : vtk-5.8.0-win32-x86.exe". I just downloaded and<br>
>>>> >> installed it on a Windows machine, and when I run "VTK" from the<br>
>>>> >> start<br>
>>>> >> menu (the only thing that appears to be an option), I get a blank<br>
>>>> >> terminal window and a blank gray widget with no further<br>
>>>> >> instructions/explanation - indeed very confusing!<br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> My understanding is that this is some sort of TCL-only binary<br>
>>>> >> package?<br>
>>>> >> My suggestion would be to remove this from the download page<br>
>>>> >> entirely,<br>
>>>> >> or at least bury it so it is not the first thing you see and so it<br>
>>>> >> doesn't look like what you should download as a new user. It should<br>
>>>> >> be<br>
>>>> >> immediately clear that VTK is intended to be used as a library, not a<br>
>>>> >> standalone application.<br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> David<br>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> >> Powered by <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a><br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at<br>
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>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:<br>
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>>>> >><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>>>><br>
>>>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at<br>
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>>>><br>
>>>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:<br>
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>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> --<br>
>>> karthik<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>>><br>
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>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Wesley D. Turner, Ph.D.<br>
>> Kitware, Inc.<br>
>> Technical Leader<br>
>> 28 Corporate Drive<br>
>> Clifton Park, NY 12065-8662<br>
>> Phone: <a href="tel:518-881-4920" value="+15188814920" target="_blank">518-881-4920</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Powered by <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at<br>
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>><br>
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>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> William J. Schroeder, PhD<br>
> Kitware, Inc.<br>
> 28 Corporate Drive<br>
><br>
> Clifton Park, NY 12065<br>
> <a href="mailto:will.schroeder@kitware.com" target="_blank">will.schroeder@kitware.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">http://www.kitware.com</a><br>
> <a href="tel:%28518%29%20881-4902" value="+15188814902" target="_blank">(518) 881-4902</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>| Aashish Chaudhary <br>| R&D Engineer <br>| Kitware Inc. <br>| <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a> <br>